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The Other Side of the Two-Stick

09/04/2012 10:07 AM | 107ist Admin (Administrator)

—by Andrew Brawley

Anyone following me on Twitter or Facebook knows my feelings are pretty well set on the issue of Gavin Wilkinson and his retention of the General Manager position. While I have intentionally been somewhat vague with my feelings about that topic on this site, I think most people can read between the lines.

In the spirit of fairness, I feel the right thing to do would be to present the other side of the argument. Since I’m not a traditional debater, I’ll allow someone with differing opinions to present that viewpoint. This person (who contacted me via Twitter) chose to remain anonymous, and their words below are presented verbatim, without rebuttal.

At the risk of being labeled a “newbie” or outcast, I feel the GWout crowd is misinformed in their position, and misguided in their expression.

I may have only been going to Timbers games since 2011, but that doesn’t mean I can’t research the history between Mr. Wilkinson and his pre-MLS version of the Timbers and the so-called “best soccer fans in North America” known as the Timbers Army. While I do regularly sit with the TA at the matches I can make it out for, I have to say it’s become a bit more embarrassing to do so in recent months. The match against Vancouver, where all those two-post signs made their one-time appearance, was a low point.

I’m having a hard time finding exactly what Mr. Wilkinson said or did to the TA. I researched using Google, and looked at a few of the local blog and podcast sites. I cannot find any quotes from Mr. Wilkinson that directly called out the TA in a negative way. Apparently only the TA knows, or they have created their own fictional version of history, and they seem to just want to keep those reasons to themselves and their exclusive message boards.

This GWout mob seemingly came out of nowhere. Since there appears to be no real incident conducted by Mr. Wilkinson to cause this type of response, I’m forced to assume this so-called “cause” is only a newer development created by some of the more self-entitled members of the TA. While they can certainly have an opinion about this, their method of expression was out of line.

I heard there was some form of communication between the front office and the TA board that GWout signs would not be allowed in the TA section at the following match against Colorado on August 31st. Personally, I think the front office staff made the right call with that. While the Timbers may not make the playoffs this year, they are doing everything they can to scrape together what’s left of this season and make the most of it. All those GWout signs will do is cause distractions and hurt feelings of the team we love.

I ask the members of the TA: what good will it do to cause even more disruption during this season?

 

This is an opinion piece and does not necessarily reflect the opinion of the 107ist or the TA.


Comments

  • 07/16/2016 10:59 AM | 107ist Admin (Administrator)
    Ian says:
    Tuesday, September 4, 2012 at 12:10 pm

    I think I land somewhere in between the two sides. I have never been a Gavin fan, and don’t think he’s the right man for the GM position going forward, but I wasn’t a huge fan of the GWOut two-stick signs at the Vancouver match. The Cascadia tifo was such a fantastic way to honor not only our team but the Cascadia rivalry itself, and the signs didn’t jive with that positive statement all that well. That being said, there’s a difference between disagreeing with a statement and disallowing it. Merritt’s decision to censor the TA from any anti-Wilkinson signs is just wrong. File this under “I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.”
    Link  •  Reply
  • 07/16/2016 11:00 AM | 107ist Admin (Administrator)
    Mychal Quintanilla says:
    Tuesday, September 4, 2012 at 12:13 pm

    “Cause hurt feelings of the team we love’ ??? Its not anti team in any way
    Link  •  Reply
  • 07/16/2016 11:00 AM | 107ist Admin (Administrator)
    John Acerbi says:
    Tuesday, September 4, 2012 at 12:18 pm

    Check out and old article: http://www.wweek.com/portland/article-6895-looking_up.html
    Link  •  Reply
  • 07/16/2016 11:00 AM | 107ist Admin (Administrator)
    Elven Hillman says:
    Tuesday, September 4, 2012 at 12:25 pm

    I will be honest and up front in saying that I am neither GWOUT or GWIN, I feel like GW is doing what he needs to do to stay in his job. Spencer was either a fall guy or he actually didn’t line up with the future of the organization. Lets face reality, I was not there and I do not know his direction for the club. I personally really liked him and his coaching style. I do think that this may have been more calculated that we would want to believe. For instance, to make a deal with Caleb we may have needed to move sooner than later.
    Where this person is getting it wrong is saying that it came out of nowhere. There have been calls for GW to leave for some time. The recent string of events has really just caused those feeling to resurface. GWOUT is a great example of a fan stating that they support the boys, but aren’t happy with what is happening in the front office. Portraying GW as the devil, that may be a bit over the top, but it isn’t a threat.
    Here is exactly where I stand:
    We are not getting GW out of here with two sticks. If you feel strongly about your opinion, bring them, call your ticket agent, just don’t make threats (if I recall there have been none confirmed). Let him do his job in the meantime and we will hope Caleb becomes the savior we all hope for. If not maybe GW will actually be out!
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  • 07/16/2016 11:01 AM | 107ist Admin (Administrator)
    Nathan Friedrich says:
    Tuesday, September 4, 2012 at 12:27 pm

    I’m a noob, but I think all the GW hate is unwarranted. Yeah, he has called out players, “thrown them under the bus,” as people have said. He’s just trying to hold the team accountable. You can call him out on his tactics as an interim, but since CP has been behind the scenes, the team has improved.
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  • 07/16/2016 11:01 AM | 107ist Admin (Administrator)
    Elven Hillman says:
    Tuesday, September 4, 2012 at 12:29 pm

    No, when you call out a current player that is holding the team accountable. Calling out players after they have been traded, that is called being a backstabber and players will not want to come play for us. The team is playing better though, you are right.
    Link  •  Reply
  • 07/16/2016 11:01 AM | 107ist Admin (Administrator)
    Nathan Friedrich says:
    Tuesday, September 4, 2012 at 12:34 pm

    Are you talking about TP?
    Link  •  Reply
  • 07/16/2016 11:02 AM | 107ist Admin (Administrator)
    Elven Hillman says:
    Tuesday, September 4, 2012 at 12:36 pm

    Yeah, Troy was the obvious one there. But Troy said that this isn’t s a new development. I will say that the comments about TP were not all that malicious but when you combine that with the sentiment that he has been known for doing things like this, then it feels more like a problem than the comments alone.
    Link  •  Reply
  • 07/16/2016 11:02 AM | 107ist Admin (Administrator)
    Nathan Friedrich says:
    Tuesday, September 4, 2012 at 12:44 pm

    Hell, as a fan, I was making far worse comments about Troy all season. But I see where you are coming from
    Link  •  Reply
  • 07/16/2016 11:02 AM | 107ist Admin (Administrator)
    Mike Kurfis says:
    Tuesday, September 4, 2012 at 12:32 pm

    Well, at least the Timbers aren’t the McClatchy-era Pittsburgh Pirates. :) I think most of the hate comes from the stuff mentioned in the “Why We Hate Gavin” article over at Slide Rule Pass, for whatever it’s worth: CLICKY
    I’m fairly new to all this, too – started going to MLS Timbers matches, after basically only watching baseball at the Peege. Watched EPL footy on television, but never occurred to me to go to Timbers matches until last year. I’m just grateful to have fallen in love with the club and the Army, so I’m just hoping it all goes away as the club starts to succeed on the pitch.
    Link  •  Reply
  • 07/16/2016 11:03 AM | 107ist Admin (Administrator)
    Dave Petterson says:
    Tuesday, September 4, 2012 at 12:35 pm

    There is a lot more of this discussion to be found at: http://sliderulepass.net/why-we-hate-gavin/
    Link  •  Reply
  • 07/16/2016 11:03 AM | 107ist Admin (Administrator)
    Paul Muzi says:
    Tuesday, September 4, 2012 at 12:38 pm

    Speaking as a (till now, silent) neutral member on the issue, you can agree with someone’s position but disagree with their presentation of that position, especially if the tactics they use seem counterproductive or even churlish.
    Link  •  Reply
  • 07/16/2016 11:03 AM | 107ist Admin (Administrator)
    John Dunagan says:
    Tuesday, September 4, 2012 at 12:40 pm

    Uh, no. As they’d say on your favorite courtroom drama, “assumes facts not in evidence.”
    “I heard that”, “seemingly came out of nowhere,” “having a hard time seeing what [Gav] did to the TA” and the rest of the framing all sound willfully uninformed (if not intentionally dishonest) on the part of the anonymous poster. The post reads like trolling.
    So allow me, from all the way over here in FL, to set the record straight.
    Gavin’s comments out the door with regard to recently departed players such as Troy Perkins are unprofessional and unbecoming of an MLS front office, the Portland Timbers franchise, and by extension, the support group and soccer community that surrounds it. Timbers Army, as individuals and in sum, have a right to demand better of Gavin and the Front Office, including calling for Gavin’s sacking if the behavior in question does not seem to have been corrected. At the very least, Merritt Paulson’s refusal to correct or counter-argue these disparaging comments can be counted as tacit support, and that too has a right to be protested.
    That’s just conduct, right there. I shouldn’t even have to address the team’s performance on the field since Gavin took over as field manager, but in the interest of connecting the dots, Timbers Army in attendance at JWF are nearly completely season-ticket holders, and therefore vested stakeholders in Portland Timbers FC. Personnel moves and on-field performance are also perfectly-valid reasons to gripe about your Team Manager.
    I’ll leave it to others to respond how they will, but if you’re telling me I can’t demand #GWOut because you didn’t see anything, you’re not worth my consideration.
    Link  •  Reply
  • 07/16/2016 11:04 AM | 107ist Admin (Administrator)
    Elven Hillman says:
    Tuesday, September 4, 2012 at 12:43 pm

    Well said!
    Link  •  Reply
  • 07/16/2016 11:04 AM | 107ist Admin (Administrator)
    Nathan Friedrich says:
    Tuesday, September 4, 2012 at 12:48 pm

    You can demand all you want. I have seen plenty, but I still don’t believe he should go. It’s just an opinion, and honestly, we aren’t MP. We have no say.
    Link  •  Reply
  • 07/16/2016 11:05 AM | 107ist Admin (Administrator)
    douglas gaines says:
    Wednesday, September 5, 2012 at 12:18 am

    absolutely spot on!!!!!
    Link  •  Reply
  • 07/16/2016 11:05 AM | 107ist Admin (Administrator)
    Dave Petterson says:
    Tuesday, September 4, 2012 at 12:45 pm

    I also forgot, one of my favorite quotes on the topic: “Gavin’s in his twelfth year with the club. He should be a legend, but he isn’t.”
    From http://octoberthoughtspdx.wordpress.com/2012/07/22/im-not-ready-to-talk-about-gavin/
    Link  •  Reply
  • 07/16/2016 11:05 AM | 107ist Admin (Administrator)
    Anonymous says:
    Tuesday, September 4, 2012 at 12:59 pm

    Maybe I’m just a bit too humanitarian, but my major issues with the GWout two-sticks was simply that it is unnecessarily cruel to any human. My mom always taught me that “hate” is a strong word. And publishing articles called “Why we hate Gavin” is just way over the top.
    The point is that man had to turn around and look at thousands of “fans” holding up signs ordering that he lose his job, and comparing him to the devil.
    What’s frustrating is that I’m sure the response here will be that he should take it like a man because this is professional sports and these fans are vocal. Well maybe the Timbers Army (which I’ve been a proud member of since 2008) should man up and realize that in professional sports sometimes you disagree with your GM, sometimes your favorite players get traded away, and sometimes you take a lot of losses. But the Timbers Army is a SUPPORTERS group, not a platform for spewing hate towards a person who has done nothing to personally harm anyone.
    Link  •  Reply
  • 07/16/2016 11:06 AM | 107ist Admin (Administrator)
    Cleats Up says:
    Tuesday, September 4, 2012 at 2:02 pm

    How many people work for organizations where over 30,000 people are watching your every move? Obviously, anonymous, your mom has no idea what it means to be a General Manager. Did you witness the NBA draft? The boo birds were out in force.
    You have to have a thick skin and the TA crowd is smart. A lot of us have worked and lived abroad where the current treatment of GW would seem rather minor. Again, I think I speak for many that the way that he treated Perkins and talked shit about him after he was gone warranted the treatment he got and continues to get.
    What is great about this country is that you are allowed to have your own opinion. I had a #GWOUT sign at the Vancouver game and there was a fan that though I was crazy. Well, he is entitled to his own opinion.
    GW needs to “man up” (your words) and quit being a back stabber. MP needs to not allow that because as others have stated on this board, that is bad for current team moral and bad for future signings.
    Also dude, you sound like the kid who was always brown nosing the teacher and got beat up a lot as a kid. Make sure to bring an apple for GW to the next game. And please oh please I hope you NEVER sit in my section.
    RCTID
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  • 07/16/2016 11:06 AM | 107ist Admin (Administrator)
    Zim says:
    Tuesday, September 4, 2012 at 3:29 pm

    Couldn’t agree more… TA’s dissention is tame by international supporter groups standards. BTW, expressions like this toward FO and owners are the second most important aspect of supporter groups, right behind loving your players.
    Link  •  Reply
  • 07/16/2016 11:07 AM | 107ist Admin (Administrator)
    douglas gaines says:
    Wednesday, September 5, 2012 at 12:22 am

    a GW out sign is far from a “hate” level…actually I would guess that most folks just want him out of his postion with the team(he has another job) and then with our newly signed coach we can truly make a move forward to progressive modern football..you see, most of us fans want to see good football and wins!!
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  • 07/16/2016 11:07 AM | 107ist Admin (Administrator)
    Spencer Bone says:
    Tuesday, September 4, 2012 at 1:07 pm

    My favorite part of all those GWOUT signs; the guy I saw holding up his no drama scarf.
    Link  •  Reply
  • 07/16/2016 11:07 AM | 107ist Admin (Administrator)
    Paul Muzi says:
    Tuesday, September 4, 2012 at 1:24 pm

    Haha, if you were looking at 108, that was probably me! ;)
    Link  •  Reply
  • 07/16/2016 11:08 AM | 107ist Admin (Administrator)
    zfreeman says:
    Tuesday, September 4, 2012 at 1:07 pm

    I am upset with the way GW handled some of these trades, and in turn upset that our FO image has been tarnished. That said. How much harm has been done? We just hired Caleb Porter! He knows who our GM is. We all should step back, take a wait and see, perhaps Caleb will have the major influence in player personnel going forward. Not even out of the second season in MLS and TA is pitted against FO. Im not sure I like the precedent.
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  • 07/16/2016 11:08 AM | 107ist Admin (Administrator)
    Brendan O'Hanlon says:
    Tuesday, September 4, 2012 at 2:00 pm

    Wait, he disparaged Troy Perkins because he said that Donavon Ricketts is an “upgrade”? Is that right? If that’s what we are all referring to, well, I didn’t like it either, but I don’t think that is something worth reprimanding a manager over, let alone firing him. Even if it is a long-term trend, it seems to me that most managers make trades because they are thought to be “upgrades”.
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  • 07/16/2016 11:08 AM | 107ist Admin (Administrator)
    Brendan O'Hanlon says:
    Tuesday, September 4, 2012 at 2:08 pm

    That said, like a few others, I’m relatively neutral on the issue. I think what should concern the TA is not whether GW should be fired, but whether this demonstration is positive for the TA. As it is, the Talk Timbers thread that was full of vitriol toward GW suddenly grew silent immediately after we beat Vancouver. I think it does not make the TA look great when we go out with a negative message blasting the manager and the owner over matters that we are hardly privy to. And then, to top it off, we look like we’re wrong because we win and outplay one of our main rivals, in a game where the manager’s changes seemed to work (impressive work by Dike, Ricketts, and Zizzo, for example). Days later that is followed up by the signing of Porter, and the news that the FO is not raising ticket prices. However right the GWOut movement may be in truth, the perception is that the TA as a whole has chosen sides and, from the looks of it, we may be on the losing side.
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  • 07/16/2016 11:09 AM | 107ist Admin (Administrator)
    Garrett Dittfurth says:
    Wednesday, September 5, 2012 at 11:12 pm

    Sorry to chime in here Brendan. The TA never had a message. Individual people have a constitutional right to express their position. The TA as a whole has never done that in regards to a personnel move. It just so happened many people within the TA voiced their opinion, which is entirely up to them.
    Link  •  Reply
  • 07/16/2016 11:09 AM | 107ist Admin (Administrator)
    John Hines says:
    Tuesday, September 4, 2012 at 2:13 pm

    “Apparently only the TA knows, or they have created their own fictional version of history, and they seem to just want to keep those reasons to themselves and their exclusive message boards.”
    – SCUSA – http://www.soccercityusa.com/cgi-bin/yabb25/YaBB.pl?num=1338490301/84#84
    – OLive 2008 – http://www.oregonlive.com/timbers/index.ssf/2008/09/despite_timbers_woes_wilkinson.html
    – Quite similar to OLive 2012 – http://www.oregonlive.com/timbers/index.ssf/2012/08/timbers_owner_merritt_paulson.html
    – Slide Rule Pass Anti Gavin – http://sliderulepass.net/why-we-hate-gavin/
    – Slide Rule Pass Pro Gavin – http://sliderulepass.net/the-devils-advocate/
    Link  •  Reply
  • 07/16/2016 11:09 AM | 107ist Admin (Administrator)
    Zim says:
    Tuesday, September 4, 2012 at 2:16 pm

    How about this simple explanation for GWOUT… he built this team. This team of 15 dribbling wingers, 8 carbon-copy center backs, and not a single midfielder capable of playing a ball longer than 10 yards. Exception of Charra, Nagbe (sometimes), Horst, Dike, and Boyd (don’t hate him for no service), this team is still in need of class. BTW, season-ticket holder since `08 and RCTID!
    Link  •  Reply
  • 07/16/2016 11:10 AM | 107ist Admin (Administrator)
    Cleats Up says:
    Tuesday, September 4, 2012 at 2:28 pm

    Exactly. I would also add that the whole team salary is less than what David Beckham makes.
    Link  •  Reply
  • 07/16/2016 11:10 AM | 107ist Admin (Administrator)
    rik says:
    Tuesday, September 4, 2012 at 2:54 pm

    Boyd has received service and still failed to deliver. it wasn’t until we benched Boyd and put in Dike that we started scoring. Zizzo is making awesome strides, Songo’o is performing well on the wing, and though our defense isn’t set yet it’s leagues better than it was at the start of the season. Like Gavin or hate him, it’s obvious he’s making progress with this team.
    Link  •  Reply
  • 07/16/2016 11:11 AM | 107ist Admin (Administrator)
    Zim says:
    Tuesday, September 4, 2012 at 3:04 pm

    Rik, You’ll note that here was no qualatative staements regarding said wingers… simply an observation that he team is essentially built with the same type of players – limiting any coaching moves to like-for-like changes. Agreed, we look better recently, and Dike’s pace has helped create space for Nagbe b/c defenses have to play a less aggresive line with us. That said, I disagree with Boyd getting service, as you pointed out; Songo and Zizzo have only made strides recently, Boyd still leads the team in scoring and would be just as likely to put away the 2 goals Dike has scored. fans piling on Boyd reeks of ignorance. You think someone of that class just dries up? Either way, I suspect we all have different opinions about Boyd, but try I think my points on team composition still hold.
    Link  •  Reply
  • 07/16/2016 11:11 AM | 107ist Admin (Administrator)
    Jeremy says:
    Tuesday, September 4, 2012 at 6:24 pm

    Totally agree about Boyd not getting service. Balls started coming in only in the last couple of games. If our wings can do that going forward I am excited to see what he will do!
    Which actually makes me wonder about what GW is doing differently than JS was doing. I’ve been frustrated all season with Boyd not getting enough looks and the last three games the passing has been noticeably better. Now get him out there and see what happens!
    Link  •  Reply
  • 07/16/2016 11:11 AM | 107ist Admin (Administrator)
    douglas gaines says:
    Wednesday, September 5, 2012 at 12:36 am

    Brilliant!(except that Boyd is the embodiment of a slow, unaggressive poacher…and his salary could pay for six quality players)…and we need a playmaking quarterback central midfielder, not another hoofer! Gavin was an average hacking defender, a one time wonder year coach( out in the first round) and obviously a poor talent evaluater!
    Link  •  Reply
  • 07/16/2016 11:12 AM | 107ist Admin (Administrator)
    Zim says:
    Wednesday, September 5, 2012 at 9:27 am

    Douglas: You’re point about being able to bring in some more quality with Boyd’s salary off the books is well taken. I think Dike can fill the void and we could finally get that creator in the midfield we need so badly. That said, I think a lot of the grief Boyd has caught has been from questionable corners of the fan base? Those who know the game recognize that Spenny brought him in to be that poacher. Dike may very well be an upgrade in more ways than one, but the vitriol that KB gets from some fans is just plain ridiculous.
    Link  •  Reply
  • 07/16/2016 11:12 AM | 107ist Admin (Administrator)
    Bart says:
    Tuesday, September 4, 2012 at 4:24 pm

    GW and MP deserve an A+ for a quality product.
    I bet any team in the MLS would love to have all their games sold out in a beautiful new stadium. A Timbers Ticket it a hot item in Portland.
    I’m not a TA member but am a season ticket holder and fan since 1975. In 1975, I sat in the same end zone seats where current TA members sit. Attendance started to grow rapidly back then too, due to the quality of the players on the Timbers and in the NASL. We had lots of English players ( many who stayed settled in Portland after their playing days) who could play the game like we’d never seen before. Many were young players who had yet to break out. like Peter Withe (the wizard of NOD”, who scored 17 goals during his one and only year (1975) with the Timbers). The English leagues immediately grabbed him back after that breakout year. My point is, quality in the team and the league is what puts fans in the seats and keeps the GMs in their positions. In this regard, GW and MP are doing a very good job.
    As a season ticket holder and soccer fan I expect high quality league games against competition that I enjoy watching. If we make the playoffs, it’ a bonus. It doesn’t say anywhere in the fine print on my season tickets. “Guaranteed to make the playoffs”
    Link  •  Reply
  • 07/16/2016 11:12 AM | 107ist Admin (Administrator)
    Brandon says:
    Tuesday, September 4, 2012 at 5:42 pm

    Haha. Quality product he says….. :/
    Link  •  Reply
  • 07/16/2016 11:13 AM | 107ist Admin (Administrator)
    douglas gaines says:
    Wednesday, September 5, 2012 at 12:43 am

    just another fan of old(sat 216, 217 back in 75-82) caught up in the english game drunkeness…i love the imprint that the Timbers of ole put on our fair town but a new game has arrived…and fans are allowed to comment any way they see fit, that’s what happens when you feel passionately about something!
    Link  •  Reply
  • 07/16/2016 11:13 AM | 107ist Admin (Administrator)
    Fernando says:
    Tuesday, September 4, 2012 at 9:02 pm

    Hmmmm. Why oh why I have my suspicions about who may have chose to remain in anonimity (euphemism for a type of personality.) While its merely an speculation, it would have to come from someone who doesn’t find the sport – or the team for that matter – intrusive? Someone who can’t hide its displeasure for this sport gaining momentum, and clearly on an indelible road to stay in Portland. Hmmm… Hmmmm…
    Link  •  Reply


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